transfer requests

[Haber]

Please take a look at transfer requests and schools where they originate. There is a reason that teachers ask to be uprooted with all their stuff and go to another school. Generally, you move your stuff yourself on your own time and it's a pain. Look at schools with 40% of the staff asking for transfers; you have a problem and it ain't the teachers! I worked with a principal who regularly had 40% of the staff ask for transfers; she upgraded the carpet in her office on the PTA nickel--nothing ever happened and she retired. But she made a lot of people's lives miserable before she did.

[Unregistered]

I am going to ask HR ... to post the total numbers of transfer requests on the HR web site by school ... classified by reason given ... additionally ... I will ask them to start following up on schools teachers consistently want to leave ... I agree with you that the problem isn't always with those who want to leave ... Clayton

[Dee]

Are we having new transfer forms this year? The past forms never asked the reason why............and I agree it should have.
But I know of some teachers who would be nervous stating the reason why and then getting the principal to sign the form. I bet many teachers would just let it go.,X

[Unregistered]

Is that Jackson Brown ... Clayton

[clarbineds]

Bob Seegar(sp?), i think

janet:hiya:

[Haber]

Here's the stuff that clarbineds wrote:
Bob Seegar(sp?), i think

janet:hiya:

Yep, Seegar, "Against the Wind"

[Still Learning]

Here's the stuff that Dee wrote:
Are we having new transfer forms this year? The past forms never asked the reason why............and I agree it should have.
But I know of some teachers who would be nervous stating the reason why and then getting the principal to sign the form. I bet many teachers would just let it go.,X


Yes, I believe teachers would not state the "real reason" for the transfer request when the principal must sign the form! At my school the teachers must request the form from the secretary, so there is absolutely no privacy.

[sid63usm]

The form should on PCS website and one could print it out, complete it and send it in. Why should you have to put why you want to leave a school? Principal shouldn't have to sign it. You could even file the form electronically.

Put up a big QUALITY poster for each school and let people put their name on a colored dot that they want to leave and on another colored dot where they want to go. Then all the administrators could go to the room and see QUALITY!

Maybe there could be some trainings on the different schools. I am sure they could call in some experts who have done their research! Just think about the amount of money that could be spent and jobs that could be created!! Teachers on assignment to do the research, right?

[sid63usm]

I guess I need to turn this thing off and quit being sarcastic! I will go make lesson plans and chart quizzes for the next several weeks. Actually I am starting to be bored and am ready to go back to school.:**

[Haber]

Here's the stuff that sid63usm wrote:
The form should on PCS website and one could print it out, complete it and send it in. Why should you have to put why you want to leave a school? Principal shouldn't have to sign it. You could even file the form electronically.


Sid is right; don't even involve the principal. why should the form be signed by the principal? it's like having a note from your mommy. I am a professional and want to transfer. It's not my principal's business unless he/she is the reason.

[moebius]

Dr. Wilcox,

The idea for charting & analyzing transfer data is a good one. You will see trends that will indicate problem areas in both administrative and instructional areas. There is a category to consider - people who simply file a transfer as a positive option in case something better or more challenging comes open. I filed transfers on a yearly basis for just this reason. The administration was good and I was doing my job, I just wished to keep options open. Perhaps a category like this for the transfer form would be a good idea to keep data like this in a neutral classification.

M.
___________________________________________
"There was so much to grok, so little to grok from."
Heinlein - Stranger in a Strange Land

[Ron]

Where can I find out the rules and proceedures for transfers. Don't really want one, but I have been looking and don't want the principal to think I am unhappy.

Rexmax

[Unregistered]

Dr. Wilcox,

How's about not stopping with posting teacher transfer requests.

Also, make sure you post other department transfer requests.

What about employee exit interviews. Start conducting those if they are not currently conducted. Most organizations conduct those in an effort of finding out what is going on either for the better or the worse. You might find some leadership issues might exist in your organization.

And you may even want to look into how promotions are handled. HPO promotions looked over as favors to others who are less qualified.

Oh, there is so much!!

[Pollyanna]

Welcome to Pinellas County, Dr. Wilcox.

Sometimes transfers just mean that professionals are looking for a chance to be rejuvenated or re-inspired.

But sometimes transfers can mean there is a disaster brewing. The school I left in early September had a 100% turnover in Guidance since June, 100% turnover in assistant principals in the past 3 years and just last spring 17 teachers left. This is astounding considering that very few teachers/staff ever wanted to transfer out of this school before...

Perhaps big changes in the percentage of transfer requests would be something else to consider.

[justonemore]

My school has had about a 45-50% turnover in the last year and a half. They either transferred or retired because they did not like the way they were treated.

[occam]

Moe is right. There are tons of folks who file just in case something good comes along.
I also agree that the principal doesn't need to be made aware of the transfer. I've been in situations where if you filed a transfer the previous year, you were denied the opportunity to go to conferences or attend training because you wouldn't be at the school to share it so why should they pay for it (I know that's a terrible run on). We were also told that the principal would not sign one if you went to training on them. I know that's supposed to be against contract but it didn't stop them from making the threat.
The other problem with transfers is that is the only recourse for a bad situation. The district and PCTA recommend a transfer for anyone who has issues with a principal even if the principal is at fault. The principal is never held accountable. The teacher is simply moved.

[czbrats]

I am one of those teachers who put a transfer in every year. I put one in so I can be in control of my career. The way it works now, if you don’t have a transfer in and a job opens up that you really want to put in for, you can’t if it’s after the transfer period. So, I put one in every year.

Although in a conversation I had with my current principal (I am new to the school this year), he said that he would not send me to any conferences if I put in a transfer and that is how he feels about anyone who puts in a transfer. Which is a little scary. I’m just afraid that all those charts being planned are going to leave out the teachers who are afraid of putting in a transfer because of the retaliation from administration. So, I’m all for the principal not having to sign the form also.

[occam]

I'm not even sure that not signing is enough. The information should be kept confidential from the principals at the person's school. If the person gets a job else where, then they'll find out. Additionally, this may need some contract language in the area of retaliation for filing transfers.

[Dee]

A bargaining issue!:confused:

[Unregistered]

Sadly, the management of the school district has little experience with the "real world" that is so often referred to in schools. In the real world relocation to new jobs is a very private matter. Alerting an existing supervisor of one's intention to seek other employment could only happen in education. Regardless of what is the norm, principals naturally feel threatened or abandoned by teachers who might chose to seek a position elsewhere.

The issue of transfers that can only occur during a brief period at the end of the school year eliminates most of the available positions that are contracted to new hires before any existing teacher can express an interest. It took four years for an end of the year opening to become available at schools in which I was interested. Seven positions for which I qualified were filled by others from outside the school system during this time.

Yes, I know that many would say to work through the teacher's union; it's a bargaining issue. No, thank you. The state of the union in Pinellas County is an embarassment. Teachers who belong to the union must do so for reasons other than the great job they SHOULD do representing the interests of teachers. It appears this union is too busy patronizing the administration, bargaining for support personnel and administrators, and spending union dues to support political candidates to bother with teacher issues.

I will repeat my mantra--OUR BUSINESS IS EDUCATION! How can it possibly take 9,000 people to support 8,000 teachers? The misplacement of priorities is nearly unbelievable--but, wait, let's remember, this is Pinellas County Schools.

[Still Learning]

Here's the stuff that occam wrote:
I'm not even sure that not signing is enough. The information should be kept confidential from the principals at the person's school. If the person gets a job else where, then they'll find out. Additionally, this may need some contract language in the area of retaliation for filing transfers.

I certainly hope transfers will be kept from the principal. We just had a teacher resign as of yesterday. She knew transfers were not given at this time of year, and decided to resign rather than continue to me treated unprofessionally by our Administrator. I and other staff members are extreemly upset about this. Our county just lost an excellent teacher.

[Natasha]

Why has this administrator not been disciplined?
Is she "related" (I'm being kind in my rhetoric) to a "suit" in the Taj?

See...IF THAT'S TRUE.... that has to be addressed.

[Still Learning]

Here's the stuff that Natasha wrote:
Why has this administrator not been disciplined?
Is she "related" (I'm being kind in my rhetoric) to a "suit" in the Taj?

See...IF THAT'S TRUE.... that has to be addressed.

I must be careful about what I post, and I am sure everyone would understand. I do have more information posted on another area, but still rather limitted. I have a meeting next week and will let the proper people know about the concerns of my collegues and myself about our situation. I have mentioned previously that I have been teaching for 40 years, and the past 35 in Pinellas. I have worked with wonderful Administrators in this county. Sadly I feel I am now working with the most unprofessional and incompentent Administrator of my entire teaching career.

[occam]

I agree that the private sector doesn't do it that way. Many times when your current employer finds out that you are seeking another job, you're fired. They assume you are working for the other company before you leave so you are gone.

I understand that it's important to maintain continuity in the classroom but what a shame that beginning teachers get to have the schools they want and veterans have to take what's left over. I've known several principals who simply don't find anyone suitable on the transfer list so they can hire out of the new teachers. New teachers are easier to control.

[Haber]

Here's the stuff that occam wrote:
I've known several principals who simply don't find anyone suitable on the transfer list so they can hire out of the new teachers. New teachers are easier to control.

Why should principals have that power? If I have good to excellent evaluations and am qualified for the job, why should the principal be allowed to say no? Some of these people have too much power! I have taught in other districts where the principal and teachers are a team--I rarely see that in the county. It reminds me of my favorite Dilbert where Dilbert and Wally are mocking the latest fad du jour and the ensuing meetings. The pointy-haired boss wonders, "Is it too late to rule by intimidation?" Unfortunately, we have too many schools run exactly that way.

[Gletti]

I agree. I would like to tranfer from my school but I have founf over the last few months that my principal is a mean spirited person. I am afrai to ask for the form and terrified to have her sign it. I also feel that if her leadership is the reason I need to transfer, putting that on the form will make me less desirable and will possible make her less willing to give me a recommendation.

[Sweetheart]

Why should principals have that power? If I have good to excellent evaluations and am qualified for the job, why should the principal be allowed to say no? Some of these people have too much power! I have taught in other districts where the principal and teachers are a team--I rarely see that in the county. It reminds me of my favorite Dilbert where Dilbert and Wally are mocking the latest fad du jour and the ensuing meetings. The pointy-haired boss wonders, "Is it too late to rule by intimidation?" Unfortunately, we have too many schools run exactly that way.

I totally agree Haber.
|yay|

[Ron]

The problem is management and leadership. If the school is run well, and the staff feels respected, then there is little fear of asking for a transfer form as very few will be requested. However, in a school that has 40 to 50%of the staff requesting transfers, regardless of the reason, an indicator is present that higher management must note. Had good Captain Bligh known that his petty officers and coxswains were carrying rope ends and using them as truncheons, he might have avoided his long boat trip to England in a small boat......

Rexmax

[Still Learning]

I would like to know when teacher transfer requests will begin to be accepted. Is it February 1st? Also would like to know the deadline or last day they will be accepted. Thanks so much!

[carter]

Moe is right. There are tons of folks who file just in case something good comes along.
I also agree that the principal doesn't need to be made aware of the transfer. I've been in situations where if you filed a transfer the previous year, you were denied the opportunity to go to conferences or attend training because you wouldn't be at the school to share it so why should they pay for it (I know that's a terrible run on). We were also told that the principal would not sign one if you went to training on them. I know that's supposed to be against contract but it didn't stop them from making the threat.
The other problem with transfers is that is the only recourse for a bad situation. The district and PCTA recommend a transfer for anyone who has issues with a principal even if the principal is at fault. The principal is never held accountable. The teacher is simply moved.

Where is it in contract language that they can't hold a transfer request against you? I am tired of feeling like I can't put a request in. I tried before and was told that I could not go to a conference because I CONSIDERED a transfer the previous year! Isn't this PINELLAS COUNTY SCHOOLS $$? Won't any training that I attend benefit MY EMPLOYER.... PINELLAS COUNTY SCHOOLS??????

[Natasha]

Whew, Dr. W....you have more than a huge mess on your hands.
Your next step??? Check out your principals!